Gordon Rennie's Dredd vs Sovs arc

[jamesedwards]

All the stuff with Sov spies littered around, that awful bit where Dredd mercs up a gulag and the absolute drek that was "Blood Trails".

Ugh, I really don't like this.

It feels very Garth Ennisy - a few supporting characters from the past brought back clumsily conspicuously in run-in stories (Giant, Guthire, even super-obscure guys like Judge Ocks) in order to be put over the butcher's block in some sort of piss-poor attempt at pathos. That's exactly the approach Ennis took in the build-up to Judgement Day, and it both screams "LOOK AT ME! I KNOW DREDD'S PAST" and "I CAN'T QUITE GET THE HANG OF THIS JOHN WAGNER FAN-FICTION LARK LADS, SEND HELP ASAP".

I realise that Rennie was going to be given the reins at one point - not to slight the man, he's written some OK stuff, but I'm glad someone else will probably take over Dredd from Wagner at some point (who wrote that Christmas story about the bleeding jesus doll and the extended flashback? That was fucking hysterical). The Sov stuff feels like an attempt to take ownership of the fates of certain characters (with all the subtlety of being face-diddled by a rhino) while building to Apocalypse War II down the line (yawn). This was something they did before in the 1990s, with that weird vestigial Chinese/American war buildup they shitcanned as Wagner returned.

Rennie's Sov stuff... well, god. It's puerile and political in ways that don't make sense. Redraw the costumes and some of the dialogue is so unintelligent and unDredd that it could pass for leftover Lawman of the Future strips. A legal eagle shouldn't talk like a bad parody of John Rambo, running off to Russia to engage in dick-waving contests with some bad racial stereotypes and the usual unwelcome "creepy guy in a wheelchair" stereotype (because as we all know, people with physical defects are bitter little creeps! Nice going, toofer).

Blood Trails is even worse - Vienna gets used as a women-in-fridges fucktoy purely to mess with Dredd's head (again!), some very good characters get tortured for not much reason at all (Rico's metal face is going to be a really awkward bit of continuity clutter that will probably ignored, I think) and the whole thing had art that was just entirely unsuited to a proper serious Dredd arc.

Not to forget how bloody embarrassing it is to paint Soviets as some sort of thread in a 21st century comic... it felt dated, a bit creepy and xenophobic and out of touch, all at the same time. It's coloured my thinking on Rennie a lot, even if he's done some decent Wagner-aping one-shots.

[John Caliber]

I don't think there have been any good Sov-Block stories since the Apocalypse War? (you may argue that there has NOT been a Sov-Block since the Apocalypse War!).

[Woolly]

I pretty much disagree with every point you make, especially the remark about Gordon Rennie 'apeing' John Wagner. He's one of the best comics writers in the UK, so good in fact that he is regularly compared to John Wagner, which has to be some of the greatest praise a comics writer can recieve (in my humble opinion anyway!)

Not wanting to start an argument, each to their own and all that. I just find it a bit odd that you would blast a writer for bothering to know Dredd's past (a must, surely?), and for understanding that Dredd does not work alone.

[Mike Gloady]

I can't agree with your assessment of that block of stories, but I can see where you're coming from.

Regarding the whole cripple=evil thing:  I presume that Gordon was riffing on the trope rather than being casually discriminatory.  A quick survey of his posts here would tend to suggest that such thought is NOT something he tolerates lightly.  Or indeed at all, jumping in often where I'm uncertain if any offense has actually been given.  So I think you're off the mark THERE.

I really like Rennie's take on Dredd, those stories aren't his BEST Dredd by any stretch but I don't go as far as you.  

And I quite liked the Sov aspects of Doomsday (the implementation of the mechanic might be a little sucky with needless repetition), Sin City, even Orlok's appearances in Anderson.  So I disagree there too.  But good thoughts well put.  Variety is the spice of life, after all.

I'd agree with Wooly too in that I don't think he "apes" Wagner, he has his own distinct style on the character which is brave considering some of the stick Ennis, Morrison and Millar got for doing the same thing in the past (and indeed continue to get right here).  I view his loss to the videogames industry to be a real tragedy for Twoth.  I really hope he comes back in a more long-term way soon.  Given enough time I'm sure his voice will be every bit as definitive as Wagners.

[Robin Low]

Not to forget how bloody embarrassing it is to paint Soviets as some sort of thread in a 21st century comic... it felt dated, a bit creepy and xenophobic and out of touch, all at the same time.

All this in a sci-fi comic still called 2000AD in 2010...

It's coloured my thinking on Rennie a lot, even if he's done some decent Wagner-aping one-shots.

He did a lot better than that. For a long time he was the only writer who got the tone of Dredd's voice right, and is still the only person I'd trust to do so consistently.

As for the Sov storyline, for what it's worth it didn't grab me much either. However, what frustrated me the most was the way it dealt with Hershey - I simply didn't like her anymore. However, she'd become Chief Judge and had to play politics - I may not have liked it, but Rennie had the guts and sense to deal with the realities of the situation.

Regards

Robin

[Jim_Campbell]

(you may argue that there has NOT been a Sov-Block since the Apocalypse War!).

Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I beg to differ.

Cheers

Jim

[Cthulouis]

Not to forget how bloody embarrassing it is to paint Soviets as some sort of thread in a 21st century comic... it felt dated, a bit creepy and xenophobic and out of touch, all at the same time. It's coloured my thinking on Rennie a lot, even if he's done some decent Wagner-aping one-shots.

In fairness, there probably would be plenty of Sovs that would still be like this: dated, a bit creepy and xenophobic. People like this exist everywhere in the world, and I think we have seen one or two people like this in MC-1 to address the balance.  

From a world building view, the idea of chucking the odd survivor of the war in with the likes of Total War and other fringe groups makes a lot of sense. As an example of where this has worked, I point to Sin City, in which a few old bitter Sovs are seen to be helping to fund and supply the next generation of terrorists.

This aspect of Dredd, the fact that history festers in peoples minds and influences their actions, is one that makes the setting far more realistic.

I also liked the idea that Hershey’s reign as CJ is marked by her interest in foreign policy, as seen in one of her first stories in the role, Dead Ringer. As such, I think the idea of an old bitter Sov “advising” her while trying to bring her down from the inside has legs.

I see the plot as being less “We’re going towards Apocalypse War 2”, and more a riff on the idea that bombing countries into submission creates terrorists, which is a much more pertinent issue than “Russians are evil, boo hiss.”

Note that I am defending the story ideas in general, and not necessarily any particular example of their execution.

The ultimate let down of Rennie's Sov arc is that it probably won’t have an ending, which makes the whole thing kind of pointless.

[TordelBack]

I've long objected to Rennie's reliance on the established supporting cast and the Family Dredd (mainly because by contrast Wagner uses it so sparingly), but I actually enjoyed these stories at the time (even the Vin Diesel one).  However as it never went anywhere (yet) it felt a lot like a let-down in the end.  I did feel it mainly existed to insert the character Kazan Jr into the Justice Dept, rather than to revive the Sov threat, and had we ever seen him do anything, it would have been a success for me.  Same with our wealthy vigilante and his prison ship and Mk II Mantas - not bad stories at all, but clearly going somewhere they never got (yet).  That said, I'm sure John will want a rest and a kip after Tour of Duty, so hopefully Rennie might get a chance to pick up his threads seeing as he is apparently still with us and still producing great tales (It Came From Bea Arthur Block being a fave - I've just re-read that one, and if there's a better example of 'Modern Old School Dredd' I've yet to see it, a real classic).

By the way, jamesedwards, that was a superb post, for all that it might be a minority opinion it was a pleasure to read and ponder.  

[locustsofdeath!]

'Return of the Assassin' seemed to be nice closure for the Sovs. I'll agree that Rennie's Dredd stuff isn't great, but compared to some of the others who have written Dredd during Wagner's "retirement" from the character, well, it's nearly-great (relatively speaking).

[jamesedwards]

I see there as being a big distinction between Wagner's post Apocalypse stuff using refugees and outcasts holed up on a boat somewhere and Rennie's use of East Meg 2 as a flat, sabre-ratting boogie man. The formers's genuinely sad and raised points of morality about mass-murder in wartime, the latter's desperately movitated. At the time I was genuinely worried the comic was going to completely retro at the expense of new talent, so seeing a repeat of something I'd only read about in my Dad's old progs was worrying. Dredd filing reports saying "STILL A CREEP!" in big handwriting or waltzing off to Siberia to shoot things without letting diplomatic methods have a try... that's the Dredd from LOTF, the Dredd of adolescent power fantasies. I'm more into yer proper adult Dredd, all doubts and pragmatism.

Minority opinion I know, but Rennie's stuff just reminds me of the way Garth Ennis or Mark Millar did business. He's got the latter's tendency to head straight back into the history of the strip at the expense of forging ahead and a bit of Millar's violent, slightly dull witted Judge. For me this all comes to a head in the House of Sin bit where he brings in Robo-Guth to end every sentence with "Chief!" and PUNCH THOUGH WALLS WITH HIS BITCHIN ROBO-ARMS while making cool dry action hero comments. I doubt Lawman Of The Future would ever have got away with riffing on Saw, but that's LOTF-level Dredd scripting right there.

Some of his one-offs are good but they're very old fashioned and cover old ground - I guess pairing him with Ian Gibson a lot doesn't help it feel any less nostalgia-driven. I'm re-reading through a bunch of stuff right now and the strongest non-Wagner Dredd writer kind of surprised me... it's John Smith!

(Maybe I'm just bitter after reading the Dredd vs Death novelisation? Or playing Dredd vs Death, for that matter...)

[Mike Gloady]

Can I just reiterate what TordelBack said - I'm really glad you've posted, these are very interesting thoughts.  Thanks James.

I agree about Millar & Ennis by the way and I see what you mean, even if I don't agree about it actually being that bad.  Some of the notes you mention ring a little off, but mostly I think this stuff would work better if Gordon had been able to stick around and write the stories it was so obvious he was building towards.

[jamesedwards]

Thanks, fellas!

I'm feeling a bit hypocritical here, since J Smith's Hand Of Orlock thing in 06 (Jumped) covers a lot of the same ground Blood Trails does - it just feels a lot more humanised and a bit more original.

At the end of the day you can't argue against a difference of opinion - I know exactly why Rennie's writerly tics irk me, but that isn't an issue for others. Fair enough.

[Mike Gloady]

Millar works for lots of people but not for me.  I like Mills and many are incredibly vocal about their dislike of his work.  Can't see the point of bellowing "HE'S SHIT" "HE'S ACE" back and forth.  THIS thread is how such differences of opinion should be approached.  Nice work Sir.

[Art]

Heh. I was tracking this stuff down recently. Personally I think you could make a pretty tasty GN out of it.

[Leigh S]

I don't think theres anything inherently wrong in ahving Sov bad guys - if anything, trying to ape the changes brought by Glasnost was more of a mistake - its the future, so if the Sovs went big on Stalin again after a century or so of democracy, who are we to know?   

That said, I pretty much agree with the general thrust of yuor POV.  I can see the temptation to use the supporting cast, and if you arent writing the strip for most of the time, then when you use them, they'll take up a bigger percentage of your stories.  Personally, I like the fact Dredds "chums" dont buddy around with him that often.  It seems more real, less Superheroey and in keeping with Dredds character that these people are usually kept at some distance.

As I've said before, Rennies Dredd, like Grants, feels to me to be deliberately written (I'd hope!) as unlikeable.  He can be petty, bullying , sneering and posturing (was it "regime change" in the meg where he swaggers about saying he can beat a whole army or something, because he's Judge Dredd?  Probably not an actual quote I hasten to add, but that was the thrust of it as I remember it!).  Wagners Dredd is a bastard, but this Dredd is more wanker than bastard, if that makes any sense. 

Of course, all you've really done with this thread is line up your own cameo - been there, done that!