Thoughts of no consequence: 'Bec and Kawl' and some S&D

[Colin_YNWA]

Its not often that 2000ad makes you shrug you're shoulders and blandly go 'Mah, yeah, whatever' and frankly 'Bec and Kawl' is just that. I just checked on Barney and there's loads of this stuff to come later down the line (I've just read the first two, two part stories) so hopefully it goes places. When you've done the cute movie references that much it wears a bit thin and even after just four parts it was dragging. Given that (again with thanks to Barney) it doesn't return for 6 months its clear Tharg saw something more in it than I did to recomission it.
I'll wait to see but from what I've read I'm in no rush to see it again.

Another concern I've developed of late is the way Sinister Dexter is being handled. I've loved me some Sinister Dexter during my catch up but in the current Progs (1600s) I'm enjoying it but getting frustrated with how it appears, to me from the outside, that Tharg takes it for granted. Using it as filler before a relaunch Prog and not giving it a decent run, even though it has a nice ongoing story line try to develop.

Are the early signs of this appearing as early as the 1200's were my catch-up is? It dips in and out of the Progs here and there. Not a problem at this time as its going through a spell of 1 and 2 part stories which it handles so well. The concern I have is that any number of new artists are being thrown at Sinister Dexter to try-out on. Or so it seems, it's as though Tharg tosses new try-out artists a Sinister Dexter to have a go on. This doesn't always have bad results in and of itself but the strip deserves better as far as I'm concerned.

This came to a head with me in 1294 when David Bircham is given a virtually silent strip to draw as though to prove he has improved his storytelling after the debacle that was 'Secret Commonwealth'. Well its better but its still not great. There's one panel were Ramone seems to be hovering, for the life of me I can't work out why.

To rub salt in the wound I see next issue 'Tor Cyan' returns with Jock on art this time, following on Kev Walker and Colin Wilson. Now I don't hate 'Tor Cyan' but Tharg seems to be getting that all backwards!

[TordelBack]

To rub salt in the wound I see next issue 'Tor Cyan' returns with Jock on art this time, following on Kev Walker and Colin Wilson. Now I don't hate 'Tor Cyan' but Tharg seems to be getting that all backwards!

Excellent point, the sort of thing I missed at the time, but your over/reviews bring out so well.  Sin/Dex has endured an almost Future Shock-style existence for much of its life, squeezed in where there's a gap and passed from artist to artist.  I suspect this may actually be a testament to Abnett's skill at writing an endless series of punchy little standalone scripts that artists have to work quite hard to screw up (though some have managed it) - a deadline-stressed Editor's dream.  You're dead right though, when he tries to build up steam in an ongoing narrative, this perception works against the long-term success of the strip.  Meanwhile dog-eared Rogue Trooper ephemera like Tor Cyan get a nice sequence of runs under stylsitically compatible Masters.  

At least these days Sinister Dexter is in the capable hands of Williams, and while its component stories are still a bit staccato in structure, they tend to run back to back.

[Colin_YNWA]

 Meanwhile dog-eared Rogue Trooper ephemera like Tor Cyan get a nice sequence of runs under stylsitically compatible Masters.  

Arh now I might make half decent points but I don't write beautiful sentences like that!

(well defo not without numerous spelling mistakes anyway!)

[The Cosh]

I suspect this may actually be a testament to Abnett's skill at writing an endless series of punchy little standalone scripts that artists have to work quite hard to screw up (though some have managed it) - a deadline-stressed Editor's dream.  You're dead right though, when he tries to build up steam in an ongoing narrative, this perception works against the long-term success of the strip.

I much prefer Sin/Dex in these short chunks with the occasional longer story thrown in rather than the way it's appeared recently. It really highlights how great Abnett is at using these short, seemingly throwaway tales to build up a whole lot of little strands that he can suddenly bring together later. Plus they are sometimes funny.

I've got a big soft spot for Bec & Kawl, but that first story is dreadful. It's the Family Guy approach of thinking something's funny just because it refers to something else rather than because you've made an amusing parody of it. It does get better.

Tor Cyan was incomprehensible rubbish with great artists.

[Mike Gloady]

I've long been of the opinion that, for the most part, Sin/Dex has lost out on art duties while other, less-deserving strips, recieved the art goodies (Wilson, Walker & Jock on Tor Cyan being a perfect example).  Tor Cyan was quite weak.  A shame, as Mercy Heights was pretty damned good and it'd have been nice to have the payoff of the character's genetic infantry heritage be handled in a more interesting way once he got his own series.  Am I the only one wanting Mercy Heights to have something of a return?  It wasn't an all-time classic, but it was good, solidly written and often had great art.

Bec & Kawl isn't something I encountered, it occurred entirely during my period of foolish unfaithfullness to Tharg.  Is it worth tracking down the trade?  What does it remind you of?  I can forgive early episodes being weak if it gets better.  Even if it is mostly a humour strip.  I liked "Robo-Hunter", "I Was a Teenage Tax Consultant" and "Balls Brothers", so there's a precedent for me enjoying the humour strips in Twoth. 

[Grant Goggans]

I've got a big soft spot for Bec & Kawl, but that first story is dreadful. It's the Family Guy approach of thinking something's funny just because it refers to something else rather than because you've made an amusing parody of it. It does get better.

That's exactly it.  I wish I had thought of that description when I wrote it up for Thrillpowered Thursday.

The later stories are much better, and occasionally very funny, but those first two four-episode runs, those things are trainwrecks.

[Dark Jimbo]

Guess I'm the only fan of Tor Cyan, then.

[Jim_Campbell]

Guess I'm the only fan of Tor Cyan, then.

I was really hoping that TPO would solve the mystery of what happened to Tor Cyan -- I dunno if David has any additional inside info on this that didn't make it into the book?

I do remember that I was still talking to Kev two or three times a week back then, and I know he was absolutely stoked about both John Tomlinson's plans for the strip, and to be paired up with Colin Wilson. There was even talk (serious enough for me to be sworn to secrecy at the time) of a spin-off series that Kev would illustrate under a pseudonym with a completely different ink-style to wrong-foot the readers when it led back into the main Tor Cyan strip.

The whole thing was supposed to really kick off when Tor Cyan got back to Nu Earth, and I remember Kev's utter mystification at receiving strips which seemed to be endlessly about side-tracks on the journey back to Nu Earth.

I have the impression -- although this is nothing more than speculation on my part -- that the Jock-illustrated series was a fairly perfunctory attempt to wrap it all up, the grand plans having been abandoned by that stage.

Cheers!

Jim

[Huey2]

On an old episode of the South Bank show I can remember Ben Elton describing his writing-relationship with Richard Curtis on Blackadder. He said that if he'd come up with a joke he liked and then Curtis took it out during his draft then he never fought to re-instate it. He reasoned that the joke was now a "dead dog" and that digging it up and trying to make it work it work would not be pretty.

I always remembered that quote whenever Rogue resurfaced in the post- Finlay-Day era. Each attempt to dig him up and make him work again was uglier and uglier. And attempts to match up continuity just made the whole thing more of a bloody mess.

The honorable exceptions (IMHO) being "War Machine" (Which wasn't trying to be the original Rogue trooper, but something different. the problem for subsequent stories was that gibbons hadn't left an established set-up for the other stories to exist in and no other writer attempting to address it other than: "Nu Earth - some people fight there. For no reason") and "Cinnebar" (The only flash-back strip for any series which hasn't tried to tip-toe amongst the continuity. Instead it flexed the strips muscles harder than any of the original run of strips did. A work of pure genius).

[Robin Low]

Bec & Kawl isn't something I encountered, it occurred entirely during my period of foolish unfaithfullness to Tharg.  Is it worth tracking down the trade? 

It was utter rubbish from beginning to end. It didn't have any jokes, just cinematic cliches and pop-culture references trying to masquerdade as jokes. It might have been funny if you were a drunk, stoned sixth form art and design student. I remember posting that its only redeeming features were Bec's breasts. In the next series, she appeared to have had a reduction.

Regards

Robin

[Jim_Campbell]

It was utter rubbish from beginning to end.

I'm with Robin on this one. Steve Roberts' cartooning was nice enough and I could just about tolerate it in the small doses it appeared in, given that there were four other strips I could read. The idea of a trade fills me with nothing but horror.

Cheers!

Jim

[Woolly]

Guess I'm the only fan of Tor Cyan, then.

Nope, theres definately two of us 

Theres only one Rogue story that i can bear to read, and thats Cinnebar (sorry Rogue fans, but he's the dullest bloke in tooth's history for me).
Tor Cyan was like a breath of fresh air at the time - Rogue but with an actual story to tell (even if the story has been clipped short)

Maybe he was dropped so Rogue could come back to the prog? Maybe it was something to do with publicising a computer game?

Either way, i still feel a bit short-changed.

[Woolly]

PS. Bec & Kawl - arse of the highest (lowest?) order 

[The monarch]

Maybe he was dropped so Rogue could come back to the prog? Maybe it was something to do with publicising a computer game?

I think that was the reason after all gordon rennies rogue series started a few progs after cyan finished for the last time

[Roger Godpleton]

Bec n' Kawl>>>>>>>>>>>Books of Invasions.



Yeah, I went there.