Mark Millar on his 2K work - "pure shite"

[Peter Wolf]

Dawkins does himself and his cause no favours by adopting the same supercilious posture and straw man tactics as his sworn enemies.  However, when he's talking about the subject he actually knows about (evolution), he speaks with the passion of an evangelist and writes piercingly clearly and sometimes beautifully.    There's no doubt in my mind that had he been born 150 years ago he would have been a powerful champion of the established Church.  He's no Stephen Jay Gould, but I find myself buying all his books as they come out, and have done since the days of the Blind Watchmaker and The Selfish Gene.  

Me too.  Agreed on just about every comma and apostrophe.  

As to magic... this really has boiled down to a debate about semantics.  Our options as I see them:

(a). Magic = a metaphor or alternative paradigm (-shudder-) for exploring and interpreting the source and nature  of creativity and its effects in the world.  The Alan Moore camp.

(b).  Magic = a supernatural force wielded to affect the objective world in a manner contrary to scientifically derived laws.  The Dumbledore camp.

(c).  Magic = some guy in a bad toupee married to his assistant.  Just camp.

Pick one.

I think Steev is right in asserting that Option B is the dominant understanding of the word.  That doesn't mean that other people can't mean Option A when they use it.

Yeah, that's how this discussion seems to me as well - it's wordplay.  If you REALLY believe in B-type magic then I'm sorry, but I'm going to laugh at you and call you derranged (I feel precisely the same about religion so don't worry, no hypocrisy here).  If you believe in A-type magic, I'm going to think you're a pretentious so-and-so but if that's your creative process I'm not going to say it out loud.  Very often.

People laugh at folk who believe in magic because "it's nonsense".
And then they believe in god, and that Jesus 'rose from the dead'*- which is also (IMO) utter shit.

Don't worry, I think they're ALL batshit crazy.

I really admire your openminded and tolerant and mature attitude towards others who dont share your own particular world view or view of reality Mike.

 

[Mikey]

Kettle, thou art black!

M.

[The Legendary Shark]

To mangle James Russell Lowell:

"Behind the dim unknown,
Standeth (X) within the shadow,
Keeping watch above his own."

(X) was penned as God, but I'm thinking magic, science or even Tharg would fit just as well. It's all down to what we each put our faith in, I suppose.

[Peter Wolf]

Kettle, thou art black!

M.

I am struggling here to find an example of where i have laughed at or have been intolerant of someones elses religious beliefs or faith or beliefs in magic or anything else of that nature.

Perhaps you can help ?

[Robin Low]

I believe in ghosts, UFOs and the Loch Ness monster, so I might as well add God and magic in there, too.

Believing in any or all of these things is not itself a problem - faith, hope and imagination have a lot going for them. Problems only arise when you (A) let such beliefs control your life, (B) start believing that you have credible evidence that these things exist, and (C) start trying to force other people to believe in them, too, and then (D) get uptight when they won't.

Though obviously anyone who believes that Mark Millar's Robo-Hunter was actually good is a deluded, pitiable fool.


Regards

Robin

[Jared Katooie]

I really admire your openminded and tolerant and mature attitude towards others who dont share your own particular world view or view of reality Mike.

 

I have to admit, I'm in agreement with Peter here. Just because you believe something is nonsense doesn't mean you should insult and harangue the practitioners of said nonsense. I prefer to judge people by their actions rather than their beliefs.
 

Kettle, thou art black!

M.

I am struggling here to find an example of where i have laughed at or have been intolerant of someones elses religious beliefs or faith or beliefs in magic or anything else of that nature.

Perhaps you can help ?

Technically, you did just now, when you mocked Mike for hs views religious or magical stuff.

 

[Peter Wolf]

I really admire your openminded and tolerant and mature attitude towards others who dont share your own particular world view or view of reality Mike.

 

I have to admit, I'm in agreement with Peter here. Just because you believe something is nonsense doesn't mean you should insult and harangue the practitioners of said nonsense. I prefer to judge people by their actions rather than their beliefs.
 

Kettle, thou art black!

M.

I am struggling here to find an example of where i have laughed at or have been intolerant of someones elses religious beliefs or faith or beliefs in magic or anything else of that nature.

Perhaps you can help ?

Technically, you did just now, when you mocked Mike for hs views religious or magical stuff.

 

That comment was just sarcasm and wasnt really to do with Mikes views but just the lack of tolerance but i see what you mean.

[Emperor]

I believe in ghosts, UFOs and the Loch Ness monster, so I might as well add God and magic in there, too.

Believing in any or all of these things is not itself a problem - faith, hope and imagination have a lot going for them. Problems only arise when you (A) let such beliefs control your life, (B) start believing that you have credible evidence that these things exist, and (C) start trying to force other people to believe in them, too, and then (D) get uptight when they won't.

Though obviously anyone who believes that Mark Millar's Robo-Hunter was actually good is a deluded, pitiable fool.

Skilfully brought back on topic. 

I do like the way the discussion on Mark Millar ended up on the subject of magic, when he isn't.

[Colin_YNWA]

Aside from the magic of self promotion to propel a career forward?

[Emperor]

Aside from the magic of self promotion to propel a career forward?

I still can't work out how he does it - I suspect it is all done with mirrors.

[Matt Timson]

I loved The Ultimates.  That is all.

[M.I.K.]

I liked Tales From Beyond Science but detested most of the other stuff he did for 2000ad.

[Christov]

Did we change topics from Mark 'I'm not shit all of the time' Millar to the nature of the universe, Richard Dawkins, and UFOs overnight?

[Jim_Campbell]

Did we change topics from Mark 'I'm not shit all of the time' Millar to the nature of the universe, Richard Dawkins, and UFOs overnight?

Err, no. It was fairly logical thread drift over the course of several pages.

Cheers

Jim

[Dog Deever]

Aside from the magic of self promotion to propel a career forward?

I still can't work out how he does it - I suspect it is all done with mirrors.

and lots of smoke, probably...