Cradlegrave (spoilers within)

[Kerrin]

Well put Ush, I'd agree that it is a very fine example of modern, non-conventional storytelling.
The thing that impressed me the most was how it worked as a whole, John Smith's script could have easily had less impact with a different artist but Ed Bagwell's art conveyed the mundane monstrosity of the estate perfectly.

I keep getting a niggling feeling that Mary's Irish childhood has something to do with her transformation. A faerie cuckoo child of some sort? I know there are several gentlemen of the board with an impressive knowledge of Irish folklore and mythology, does the creature Mary becomes correspond to any ancient Irish monsters? I'm probably barking up the wrong lamp post but it's just a feeling.

Surprised no one has mentioned the little sod about to put a cat in the microwave, that got me so much I nearly missed the Donna kebab in the next panel. And it took me a few moments to spot what that was as well, dismembered torso, and then I realised it was on a kebab skewer. Shudder.

Not sure if there could be a satisfactory sequel to this or not.

[House of Usher]

Surprised no one has mentioned the little sod about to put a cat in the microwave.

LOL! I regarded the cat-in-the-microwave incident with supreme nonchalance. So did the cat, if the look of it in that panel is anything to go by. I think we've got so used to tabloid stories of people microwaving pets that such an image has lost its power to shock. Especially when sickening stories of microwaving babies have made the headlines.

[Kerrin]

Jesus Christ! Microwaving babies? Please tell me that's not true.

[Jim_Campbell]

Jesus Christ! Microwaving babies? Please tell me that's not true.

They take too long in the oven.

Cheers!

Jim

[Kerrin]

Beelzebub's got a special rusty toasting fork reserved for your backside Mr.Campbell.

Seriously though, did some sick fucker actually microwave an infant? I can readily believe that somewhere some depraved whack job would try it, but I just don't remember seeing it in the press.

[Peter Wolf]

Thats one of the main reasons i dont read tabloids [apart from there being nothing of interest] and never have done.

They are just one long litany of human depravity and i find it sickening.I have heard about this stuff but i thought it was just an urban myth.Wouldnt be at all surprised if it actually happened as anything is possible and nothing is surprising anymore but that doesnt mean i would get used to it and i could read about it a 100 times and i still wouldnt get used to it ever.

I havent read this weeks finale because i am waiting for last weeks to arrive in the post.

[DavidXBrunt]

http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

[Kerrin]

Bloody hell David. That's quite something isn't it. I love the little biog piece at the end that points out this was "one of his more drastic pieces". Ha.

[House of Usher]

I liked how it finishes with 'The End', which is a lot classier than 'and it was all a dream'!



I was watching Nathan Barley on DVD again, and I creased up laughing at the dialogue between Ivan Plapp and Nathan Barley in episode 6, discussing the supposedly 'satirical' intent of Barley's prank videos:

Ivan Plapp: "It's Swift as Jackass"
Nathan Barley: "...or even faster."

[JayzusB.Christ]

jesus wept! Mind you, it's worth remembering that the man was possibly the greatest piss-taker in all of English literature. Read Gulliver's explanation of how great cannon balls and dynamite are and it's easy to see how well Swift did tongue-in-cheek.

Just noticed Usher's post there - i recently watched Nathan Barley again too, it was much better than I remembered. 'alright, Kay-hole, keep it mencap, you fuckin' ear'

[Kerrin]

You can imagine the news of the day, Gulliver's travels author proposes Papists breed their children for meat. Ha-ha, wonderfully done.

Nathan Barley was class, there was quite a run on Cook Island domain names when it came out.

[Peter Wolf]

I wasnt blaming you specifically as it was just a general comment.Apologies if it seemed like i was .

I came over all touchy-feely.No idea why but i think i was having an off day.

No worries, chief, i didn't take offence or anything. 
I have to say, for my own part, I lived in a really dodgy area for a few years as I think I said. After being mugged with a syringe, having the house broken into, having a bicycle thrown at me, having the front window broken twice, not to mention three murders on my street and the neighbouring ones during my time there, I lost a lot of touchy-feelyness. The vast majority of the community consisted of really nice people, but the minority of fuckers wrecked the whole neighbourhood.  Underprivileged fuckers, yes, but fuckers nevertheless.

I take it these are kids and young adults you are talking about here.

They may be fuckers but its not necessarily their fault though.Its the fault of unfit parents and deprivation.The system has failed them and the education system and they need  nurturing and guideing as using force can be unproductive and self defeating.The govt does nothing for them as nothing is on offer and there is virtually no training and jobs on offer and nothing to do and no future for them.

They all just get locked into a cycle of violence and crime and they are ultimately nihilistic.

The police fail to do their duty because the govt doesnt allow them to and the courts are too lenient.

I dont believe in the locking up and throwing away the key attitude though as its wrong .

They are all a product of an unfair uncaring dysfunctional society and system.

[TheEdge]

I didn't think of it as a slow burner at all. I thought it got off to a flying start, but was just a bit flabby in the middle. It certainly threw a few curve balls by having dramatic incidents that had no payoff (e.g. the drugged-up car accident; Ted's death; puppy cannibalism; Skully's return), and a few payoffs that had no dramatic incident leading up to them (e.g. Ted's death again; the 'Donna' kebab; Skully eaten by slugs). The lack of connection between incident and payoff is very modernist and oblique, but doesn't make it a conventionally satisfying story. Yes, it's satisfying in other ways. Like 'Zombo', it thumbs its nose at the conventions of storytelling.

Thats kinda what i was trying to say, i'm just not as eloquent

[JayzusB.Christ]

I take it these are kids and young adults you are talking about here.

They may be fuckers but its not necessarily their fault though.Its the fault of unfit parents and deprivation.The system has failed them and the education system and they need  nurturing and guideing as using force can be unproductive and self defeating.The govt does nothing for them as nothing is on offer and there is virtually no training and jobs on offer and nothing to do and no future for them.

They all just get locked into a cycle of violence and crime and they are ultimately nihilistic.

The police fail to do their duty because the govt doesnt allow them to and the courts are too lenient.

I dont believe in the locking up and throwing away the key attitude though as its wrong .

They are all a product of an unfair uncaring dysfunctional society and system.

I appreciate what you're saying and agree with pretty much all of it. They really don't have enough opportunities and yeah, focusing on the causes of crime makes a lot more sense than simply letting it happen then trying to punish the criminals once the damage is done.
 
My brother's job in Leicester involves organising artistic projects (including music, film-making and even things like camping) for the underprivileged youth, a very large proportion of whom are electronically tagged 'problem kids'.  I'm guessing that the work he and others like him do has prevented many more crimes than the threat of being locked up, which from what I can gather isn't a huge threat at all if you're used to it.

Having said that, though, when you hear of (to take an example from my old address) someone on your street being stabbed to death because he happened to be home while he was being broken into, you don't really think 'aw, the poor kids, being led to rob and murder someone's husband and father by a society that has let them down'.  It's more along the lines of 'someone put those vicious little bastards behind bars where they can't harm any more innocent people'. These kinds of crimes ARE their fault, whatever the social background that has made them that way. The large majority of people who lived around there (who were also underprivileged) didn't go round murdering, robbing and mugging.

Just my tuppenceworth, anyway

[TordelBack]

The large majority of people who lived around there (who were also underprivileged) didn't go round murdering, robbing and mugging.

That's the key thing, isn't it?  From the outside, rough areas look like they're populated entirely by knife-wielding scumbags.  When you live there, it's obvious that it's a tiny handful of genuine fuckers twisting everything around them, and everyone else is a more-or-less decent sort trying to get by.  It's hard to argue that those lads are simply victims of society, but it's conversely easy to see that in the other kids that get drawn into their orbit mainly because their crappy life has left them so vulnerable, and with so few options.  I thought Cradlegrave caught that fairly well - our core cast might have come initially across as scary hoodies, but eldritch influences aside they were all potentially decent, with one genuine git in Skully.