Silo and Brigand Doom and Dave D'Antiques

[Colin_YNWA]

Just started going through and re-reading a load of stuff from the 700s and the first really great but oft forgotten story is Millar's Silo.

Now I know Mark Millar has a bit of a rubbish reputation amongst many 2000ad fans (and having also re-read the re-worked Robo-hunter I can see why!) but this really is a bit of a hidden gem. Ok so there are a few obivoius movie steels, which are so obivious they could very well be tributes, but overall a really scarey, atmospheric little self contained story. Loved it.

A large part of this might be the Dave D'Antiques which is glorious and also one of the contributing factors to making Brigand Doom, well at least the first story so good. Really enjoyed this one to. Ok so it felt a little derivative of V for Vendetta but still a great little story.

So what on earth happened to Dave D'Antiques? I know he did a few more Brigand Doom stories but this fella was a talent and as far as I can remember didn't do much else in 2000ad certainly?

[Emperor]

I appear to have a Silo-shaped hole in my memory, so this seems like a good opportunity to brush the dust off and have a reread.

So what on earth happened to Dave D'Antiques? I know he did a few more Brigand Doom stories but this fella was a talent and as far as I can remember didn't do much else in 2000ad certainly?

I had a look around online a few months back out of curiosity as I loved his style and he could easily have gone on to great things (Mignola and Miller have both taken that... Expressionistic? look on right to the top). However, I found nothing so I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows anything on this.

[TordelBack]

I appear to have a Silo-shaped hole in my memory, so this seems like a good opportunity to brush the dust off and have a reread.

I can save you the bother if you like.  You've seen The Shining?  You've seen Die Hard?  Grab a couple of complete scenes from each and relocate them to a nuclear missile silo.  Bingo, you've just remembered Silo. Good art though.

[JayzusB.Christ]

I liked Silo, me. Never copped the Shining influence before, I'd never seen it when I read Silo, but yeah, suppose it does pretty much wear it on its sleeve

[Tweak72]

I can save you the bother if you like.  You've seen The Shining?  You've seen Die Hard?  Grab a couple of complete scenes from each and relocate them to a nuclear missile silo.  Bingo, you've just remembered Silo. Good art though.

Sadly, pretty much every story you read will be in some way plagerised from other storys. Even Alan Moore's stuff. It is why if you want to be a writer you are advised to be well read.
This annoyingly lets Miller off the hook as if you are going to burn him you have to burn Mills, Moore, Ennis, Morrison or Ellis or any writer you like right next to him.

[TordelBack]

Ach, I know, and I did enjoy Silo at the time - different for 2000AD, and very atmospheric, 'Black rain will fall forever' is nicely spooky too.  It's just the Die Hard walking-on-glass scene in particular pulled me right out of the story and left me picking other holes... And I make a point of NEVER letting Millar off the hook for anything.

[Colin_YNWA]

Yeah the walking on glass thing was a bit jarring. That and the repeated typing were so obivious as references that I've kinda decided that they must have been intentional. Millar emphasizing the atmospheric movie qualities of the script, which were certainly supported by the glorious art.

If you're looking bits to have a go at, the think that bugged me was the fact that the repeated typing formed a great (if derivative) cliff hanger at the end of the first part BUT then weren't referenced in the second. Annoying but for me certainly didn't take away too much from a great story.

[Dark Jimbo]

Sadly, pretty much every story you read will be in some way plagerised from other stories. Even Alan Moore's stuff. It is why if you want to be a writer you are advised to be well read.
This annoyingly lets Miller off the hook as if you are going to burn him you have to burn Mills, Moore, Ennis, Morrison or Ellis or any writer you like right next to him.

Uh... I don't think that's true by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, it's hard to find a topic that's never been touched on in fiction before, but to assume that every story EVER is plagarised from another one? That is, with the greatest respect, Tweak old boy, utter rubbish.

Perhaps the formula is a bit more obvious in Tooth because the original remit was, to some extent, to create strips that 'played' on exisiting popular genres/books/shows, but you're barking if you think that every writer about to create new stories sits down and thinks 'Right then, what can I rip off today?'

[Jim_Campbell]

Uh... I don't think that's true by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree. Plus, the Millar rip-offs in Silo are breath-taking in their sheer, blatant lack of effort to even conceal the source material - just straight lift-and-transplant. Hardly the same as covering the same themes, or using similar devices ... these are ripped bleeding from the originals and, there is a certain amount of contempt for the audience demonstrated in the assumption that either a) they won't spot it, or b) it doesn't matter.

Cheers

Jim

[Tweak72]

Think what you like but pretty much all writers including the ones I mentioned all say the same thing. The first thing any aspireing writer needs to do is become widely read. So that you become influenced by all that has gone before. Ask your self this: did Pat Mills just come up with the idea of Slàne on his own or was he strongly inflenced by things like The Book of Invasions? Did Alan Moore come up with Watchmen just like that or did he draw on influences of old detective novels? Did Garth Ennis just pull Preacher out of his arse or did he get strongly influenced by storys of true grit from the Wild West? Come on people you have read the same forwards and interviews as I have they ALL say "I was inspired by" this set of books or "I was reading" such and such author or "I thought why dont I do a modern version of that story". Even bloody Tolkin said where he got his ideas from.

[Leigh S]

Being well read is not the same as watching a few movies and lifting the scenes wholesale from them and almost randomly inserting them into your own story though is it?

[Dark Jimbo]

Think what you like but pretty much all writers including the ones I mentioned all say the same thing. The first thing any aspiring writer needs to do is become widely read. So that you become influenced by all that has gone before.

Um, I don't mean to be patronising, but do you know what plaigarism actually means?

Come on people you have read the same forewords and interviews as I have they ALL say "I was inspired by" this set of books or "I was reading" such and such author or "I thought why dont I do a modern version of that story".

And? Surely that's what fiction is - a creative response to the influences that have shaped your life, the people you've met, the places you've been to, the books you've read. I don't even see how someone would begin to write a book without any reference to or inspiration from any outside stimuli whatsoever, unless they'd lived all their life trapped in a metal box, fed through a tube. And then it wouldn't really be a book worth reading.

Even bloody Tolkien said where he got his ideas from.

Are you having a laugh now? How can you genuinely equate Tolkein's being inspired by old European myth cycles to craft one of the most important and original fantasy trilogies of all time to Mark Millar's contemptuous scene-for-scene ripping off of blockbuster films?

You can't seriously think that 'having an idea' equals plaigarism?!

[TordelBack]

Now then lads, keep it civil - this is the internet you know, and we have standards.

The Tolkien thing is interesting, because of (one theory of) how LotR came into being... Middle Earth is a history and location created specifically as somewhere for JRRT's invented languages to live and develop, and the various plots are means to travel around that setting and explore the locales and events that shaped those languages - so even when aspects of the story are lifted from common myth and legend, it's in service to a much greater whole.  That's probably the key to recycling elements, they need to be smoothly reincorporated into something that has an substantial originality of its own - very hard to do if the scenes are verbatim lifts.

[Buddy]

Did Garth Ennis just pull Preacher out of his arse

It's all clear to me now!

[M.I.K.]

The way I look at it, the difference between a story that's been influenced by something else and one that's a total rip-off is this...

A story that borrows another's main idea, (or core concept, if you prefer),  has been heavily influenced by it.

A story that takes another's concept but also takes entire scenes from the story with little or no alterations is a total rip-off.